Comments on: How To Export Democracy Properly http://coynil.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/how-to-export-democracy-properly/ Observations and trends as I see them Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:05:01 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: coynil http://coynil.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/how-to-export-democracy-properly/#comment-17 coynil Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:53:34 +0000 http://coynil.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/how-to-export-democracy-properly/#comment-17 This is, of course, a difficult question to answer, but I'll admit to thinking that, yes, at a societal level, we tend to select groups of people to whom we allow rights - and de-select others. And I do believe that a large part of that reason, however unconscious it is, is whether or not the group of people gives us any advantage to ourselves. It's a pretty deep-seated "herd animal" mentality coded into us by evolution. Basically, groups don't exist from an evolutionary perspective - only individuals fighting for survival. If that individual survival is made easier by grouping together with others, great. Otherwise, get lost. No living thing does anything "for the group". Now, of course a lot of what makes us human is the ability to NOT be controlled by selfish survivalist impulses. We can circumvent these animal-like traits and be compassionate despite what our DNS tells us. But the whole point of my post was to try to answer the question: "How does the idea of individual value take hold?" If a population at large has no concept of human rights, there are no reasons to value them. Individuals who can see the altruism of human rights before their society is ready to accept it will never get through with the idea. It's the old story about a person being smart and people being stupid. 150 years ago, our Western societies were incredibly racist compared with today. That doesn't mean that no-one regarded black people as humans - but that the "forget about skin color"-meme was not ready to spread in the society for simple group dynamic reasons as outlined above. Today, we totally outcast the mentally ill, which may change in the future. Hell, we might even give apes the same rights as humans one day - and that's a meme that today's society is in no way ready to accept. Hooray for long comments! It's my blog and I'll talk if I want to, talk if I want to.. (etc) This is, of course, a difficult question to answer, but I’ll admit to thinking that, yes, at a societal level, we tend to select groups of people to whom we allow rights – and de-select others. And I do believe that a large part of that reason, however unconscious it is, is whether or not the group of people gives us any advantage to ourselves. It’s a pretty deep-seated “herd animal” mentality coded into us by evolution. Basically, groups don’t exist from an evolutionary perspective – only individuals fighting for survival. If that individual survival is made easier by grouping together with others, great. Otherwise, get lost. No living thing does anything “for the group”.

Now, of course a lot of what makes us human is the ability to NOT be controlled by selfish survivalist impulses. We can circumvent these animal-like traits and be compassionate despite what our DNS tells us. But the whole point of my post was to try to answer the question: “How does the idea of individual value take hold?” If a population at large has no concept of human rights, there are no reasons to value them. Individuals who can see the altruism of human rights before their society is ready to accept it will never get through with the idea. It’s the old story about a person being smart and people being stupid.

150 years ago, our Western societies were incredibly racist compared with today. That doesn’t mean that no-one regarded black people as humans – but that the “forget about skin color”-meme was not ready to spread in the society for simple group dynamic reasons as outlined above. Today, we totally outcast the mentally ill, which may change in the future. Hell, we might even give apes the same rights as humans one day – and that’s a meme that today’s society is in no way ready to accept.

Hooray for long comments! It’s my blog and I’ll talk if I want to, talk if I want to.. (etc)

]]> By: Jens http://coynil.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/how-to-export-democracy-properly/#comment-16 Jens Tue, 09 Oct 2007 08:44:16 +0000 http://coynil.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/how-to-export-democracy-properly/#comment-16 I get it, of course I do, since we just discussed it - HOWEVER I've come to think of a drawback to the theory: The theory balances on the idea, that people are generally selfish. A person will only respect the rights of others if these others have a positive impact on the person. If this is not the case, the person doesn't care - basically, it's a theory with a pretty dim view on human behaviour. Everything a person does is a calculation on where to gain the most. I'm not saying I disagree - but is that really it? Are we that cynical? I get it, of course I do, since we just discussed it – HOWEVER I’ve come to think of a drawback to the theory:

The theory balances on the idea, that people are generally selfish. A person will only respect the rights of others if these others have a positive impact on the person. If this is not the case, the person doesn’t care – basically, it’s a theory with a pretty dim view on human behaviour. Everything a person does is a calculation on where to gain the most.

I’m not saying I disagree – but is that really it? Are we that cynical?

]]> By: 8 Monday - WordPress PoliSci « oldephartteintraining http://coynil.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/how-to-export-democracy-properly/#comment-15 8 Monday - WordPress PoliSci « oldephartteintraining Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:12:56 +0000 http://coynil.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/how-to-export-democracy-properly/#comment-15 [...] How to export democracy properly [...] [...] How to export democracy properly [...]

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